Profee vs. Cryptocurrencies

Chris

Hello, I'm going to move to Russia in one or two months. I want to convert my salary (I work remotely) to Rubles. Is Profee or are methods using cryptocurrencies better with regards to the total loss using these platforms instead of cash exchange (approx. 1 EUR = 100 RUB)?
Thank you for your help! KoronaPay was great, but sadly, they left the game 🙁

antoniob

Chris I'm going to move to Russia in one or two months.

you are moving to Russia??? how so? there's a residency permit to have for this, and for this quite a procedure.

phoebe

See the other threads around using crypto profee is now miles behind.

Chris

antoniob I have applied to study for a master's degree. If I were accepted, I would get a visa. And after successful completion, you can apply for a residency permit, btw.

antoniob

Chris applied to study for a master's degree

that's indeed an easy way to try it.

so. money:

Profee and Korona did work because they are in Cyprus and took advantage of the grey zone still there.
Until USA sent a team of IT FBI and Treasury guys, and little Cyprus had no choice of course.

so yes cryptocurrencies.

Telegram embedded wallet recommended here is very convenient, I use it myself sometimes. It uses a sole crypto trader, which I see as a single potential point of failure, but well so long it works it works. They have to be sure to stay shielded from USA black agents, which is totally doable.
Telegram Wallet offers Bitcoin, Toncoin (own Telegram cryptocurrency) and USDT.

USDT ie. Tether, is tethered ie. pegged to USD, which many see convenient. Others see it as a trap. Tether claims USDT volume is backed by same USD volume, which is of course a joke. Tether is an incorporated company, with CEO and heads easy targets for USA. On the other hand, the guys running Tether are also the ones running Bitfinex, and Bitfinex still does trade Monero (XMR), ie, they may stand and dodge the ongoing raid from USA against XMR and against anonymizing softwares (softwares! not mixing traders).

Toncoin is own Telegram coin, so it offers very little exposure to American raids.

the safest coin is Monero (XMR). Very hard to track when used correctly.

Volatility, stability, and fees: when you buy crypto with US fiat and then RUB fiat with crypto, there are two commissions, so if you do it at once, in a row, you go easily down 5%.
But if you keep a pool of crytocurrency, that you feed when cryptocurrency is cheaper, then you can buy RUB when it goes up, so you mitigate or even suppress the loss by commissions. This of course is not trivial. Depends much own mileage with cryptocurrencies.

in any case to buy crypto from VISA/Mastercard can very fast become difficult, either because bans (some major UK banks do it) or capping of the amounts on your bank side.

How well we are watched:
The other day I went to a Bitcoin site to buy some, and transaction was rejected after the 3DS authentication, which means my bank rejected it on an additional process running on top of, after, 3DS routine. So I went to buy something cheap in order to check if it was also blocked, and indeed card was blocked.
I was to call the bank but I got already a phone call from the division of my bank watching for suspicious transactions, and was asked if it was me who used my card on site xyz. I confirmed and told that the site is a known Bitcoin trader that I use since long, which is still legal in Norway, and she unlocked my card..
This is the same bank division that once called me asking if I was in India at the moment. I was home in Norway. She explained their system had a warning about my card being used at an ATM in India....
So there had been a leak of my card number and some guy made a plastic card with a chip programmed accordingly and with some CVS hack attempt. As I confirmed it was not me in India at the moment, the card was cancelled and I was sent a new one.
Very convenient watch system, but then it can be turned into a ban system. See?

Chris

antoniob Thanks a lot for your detailed reply! Crypto fees are what piss me off. I've never bought any crypto, except once or twice. But for Russia, I did a test with Ethereum. Using MoonPay, you lose a lot, and the rate is very bad. But I'll try an online broker that has quite good rates. The only problem might be the crypto exchange from crypto to RUB; selling crypto is often more expensive than vice versa, right? I will try it with USDT, probably. It seems stable enough. Are you transferring money to Russia often?

Due to all the government control over financial matters and the fact that common people are sanctioned, I am thinking about building my own transfer website to transfer money to Russia via crypto. But it would take a lot of time to program that since there is no one I know who could help me, and I have zero to no time. But a web app could automate the process of finding the best exchange rates and the best time. Either way, it would be very limited since I can't rely on Visa, etc. If I made it into Russia, I would probably allocate more time to how to do that (or try to find a job in Russia, which would be much less headache in the long run, I guess; I've lost my job two weeks ago anyways, haha).

antoniob

Chris Are you transferring money to Russia often?

yes I top my russian bank account at least once a month.

Chris Using MoonPay, you lose a lot, and the rate is very bad. But I'll try an online broker that has quite good rates.

yes there are quite big differences in rates. I compare Simplex, Moonpay, Transak,, Neocrypto, Kraken and couple others. Just from inside MyCelium or from Ledger when I use my Nano hard wallet.
Recently I prefer to buy Toncoin or Monero.

Chris The only problem might be the crypto exchange from crypto to RUB; selling crypto is often more expensive than vice versa, right?

by default with Bitcoin yes, it's firstly because the way the network works relatively miners and their fees.
With other coins it depends, and fluctuations in rates are not the same from coin to coin. Monero has typically low fees. Toncoin also is quite cheap.

Chris I am thinking about building my own transfer website to transfer money to Russia via crypto

there's the jurisdictional wall of being able to process VISA cards. Knowing that the goal is to credit RUB accounts, the site and hence the back-end card processing, will be banned.

a workaround for personal use only: a have a long time friend in Russia. He has good income and travels a lot. Since 2022, no more in Europe but Turkya, Middle-East, Asia, plans for South America.
In 2022 I gave him a VISA card and SIM for OTP and 3DS, on a bank account and mobile subscription of mine. I replenish the account of the VISA card so he can use it at terminals or ATMs abroad, and he replenishes my russian bank account. I can also sell him crypto that he also uses here and there, without fee, and he credits my russian bank.

Chris

antoniob, what do you think about USDT compared to Monero? From an outsider's perspective, it seems to be quite stable

antoniob there's the jurisdictional wall of being able to process VISA cards. Knowing that the goal is to credit RUB accounts, the site and hence the back-end card processing will be banned.

If you only use it as a wallet, i.e. you transfer your coins to the website, and the website looks up the best current rates for re-selling? It can also offer live comparison charts before you buy. But yes, payment itself cannot and shouldn't be handled by the website itself.

antoniob I replenish the account of the VISA card so he can use it at terminals or ATMs abroad, and he replenishes my russian bank account.

That's an interesting concept, I've done something similar the first time I came to Russia. But this obviously only works when you have a friend who travels a lot. Have you ever considered sending money via the post office? It may sound naive, but I assume that small payments, like 100 or 200 Euros each, would not be seized.

In general, you can take 10k euros with you to Russia, but the EU will try to hinder you. So, flying via Turkey, although expensive, would be feasible if you have to travel a lot between the EU and Russia. But this is not the case for me, current flights are much too expensive. I will go to Russia by car again, it can be cheaper this way, depending on local gas prices. What's your preferred route to Russia?

antoniob

Chris what do you think about USDT compared to Monero? From an outsider's perspective, it seems to be quite stable

so long USD is stable so will USDT I guess. Monero has been quite stable over the years and resilient to de-listing. It's not a speculative coin like BTC.

Chris the website looks up the best current rates for re-selling?

bestchange.com has a comparative table

Chris sending money via the post

I will not. In my case it's forbidden:
https://www.posten.no/landinformasjon?land=Russland&id=RU : "Mynter/sedler "
I am sure there are CT scans of post to Russia. I think it's a EU ukaz anyway.

Chris What's your preferred route to Russia?

whichever the cheapest: Oslo->Riga then bus to Pskov, Oslo->Tallin then bus to SPb, or Oslo->Gdansk then bus to Kaliningrad.
In sommer in case of at least two weeks vacation I used to drive to Stockholm, day Vikingline ferry to Åbo (cheap, Silja is expensive) then border at Torfyanovka. But now Finland is closed and probably for a while, so next time I will do ferry to Ventspils, Paltiski or Tallinn, depending price for the period, then drive to Pskov. 500+300 kms, not much, plus the ferry _12hrs.

Chris

antoniob Thank you for your reply!

I wasn't sure that the bus routes were still open. In December, I went by train from Moscow via SPb to Ivangorod, crossed the border by foot the next day, and took the train again to Tallin. The train was really cheap, except for MSK->SPB (if you book at the right time, it's also not that expensive).